💻 Career Compass #4
Diving into the paths of other modern millennial women.
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Welcome back to Career Compass on
: a monthly series exploring other women’s musings, meanderings and methods for navigating life, with a focus on their career paths. Through short interviews with twenty- or thirty-something women, we’ll explore linear and non-linear career paths, how they approach work to make it work for them, and the blurred lines between hobbies and hustles.💻🧭
Our guest for the May edition of Career Compass is former-colleague-turned-friend, Gaby Kirk. We met at 22, fresh-faced and still excited by the bright lights of central London, trekking to the office every day - which, thinking back now, is pretty wild. I researched and created public policy events, and she marketed them.
Fast forward a few years, and Gaby had moved on to new opportunities, but our friendship continued to grow along with a few others we’d bonded with, as office tea breaks turned into weekend bottomless brunches. Her Scottish-Italian heritage combined with a wicked Essex-girl laugh was utterly infectious. Both approaching 30 this May, those early days of work friendship seem like a lifetime ago, though I think we’ll forever both be grateful for the way that time propelled us into the ever-changing landscape of what it is to be a working professional.
Now a Creative (yes, that and that alone is her job title) at DCM Studios, Gaby is thriving, finding new ways to express herself, and reach her full potential - in work, and life. Of course, that is not without it’s difficulties, and Gaby speaks candidly about mental health - her own, and guidance for others - which does include a mention of suicide. I hope it is referenced in a way that offers comfort to those for whom this might be a particularly difficult subject, but if that’s too much for you to read today, then feel free to scroll past that section below, or even click away from this conversation altogether and return when you might feel more in the mood. 💙
You do you. Gabs would tell you to too.
Now, let’s get to it…
Thank you Gaby for being a guest on The Navigation!
Could we start off with you sharing some musings on working in the film industry today, and was that a space you always wanted to work in?
It’s good to be here!
I've always had an interest in the film and music industries, I just never really knew how to get there. So I spent most of my early 20's just working that part out through unpaid internships, marketing jobs and am now a Creative at Digital Cinema Media Studios.
I did the classic school into university route, studying marketing, and then into unpaid internships to gain experience, before landing my first paid marketing role. But what I do now feels like a world away from all that. It’s essentially advertising, which does align closely with marketing, but the experience is totally different.
That said though, I did also study business and psychology at school, so had an interest in that element of human psyche which of course also plays into advertising. But I don’t think I ever imagined myself working in film and cinema in this way.
We essentially take ideas to brands, like Google, Samsumg, Amazon, for how they can own the space and speak to that captive audience who are sat in a cinema, waiting for a movie to begin.
So for example, Samsung brought out a out new TV last year, and I worked with them on a campaign- from pitching to production to getting it up on screen in front of people - that allowed them to really own big cultural moments through film. There was a sort of tag line around “bringing you big blockbuster moments,” and making this campaign part of the Barbenheimer hype for example was really key. It was my first end-to-end campaign experience, and it ended up being incredibly successful, partly because of how big 2023 was for cinema. Bringing something to life like that actually felt pretty mind-blowing.
Just this month the concept became a winner at the Campaign Media Awards 2024 - such an exciting achievement!
Congratulations on the award! It’s so interesting to hear about. I never really think about what goes on behind the scenes of adverts like that!
And could you share a bit more insight into the meanderings that led you down this path to becoming a Creative? Still getting over that that is your job title…
Well, watching The Apprentice on TV growing up, my favourite episode was always the one where they’d create a product then have to make an advert for it. I’d stop watching at the point where they went away to do the task, so that I could go off and do it myself. I loved the prompt to get creative, and explore my ideas. So looking back that was really an early starting point to what I’m doing today!
When I got my first paid marketing role, which is of course where we met, it allowed me, at 22, to surround myself with other young, ambitious people and learn from them as well. Even though the public policy events that I was marketing, and you were creating, wasn’t really the most exciting realm for me (no offence!) it did give me the experience and boost I needed to transition into my next role, which was closer to the entertainment sector.
While I spent less than two years in that first role, I was in my next company for four years, and in a lot of ways loved my job there. I focused on utilising a music channel targeted towards university students, and a related jukebox app, to get relevant brand products noticed. They would create the advert, and I would figure out how to make the tech work in the best way for them, to get them noticed. It allowed me to be really creative in a new way, and was a great introduction to advertising.
It was somewhere along this journey though that I got it into my head I wanted to explore the film and cinema industry, which initially was a real struggle as there didn’t seem to be many roles available. I had five interviews for three different jobs at the same company to get into my current position! I’ve been there for two years now.
I initially applied for a marketing role, but I think they could sense it wasn’t really what I wanted to do. I got offered to interview for an agency manager, and after a few more conversations finally got a different manager role which has now changed to Creative, to be more in line with what I and my team do. It’s an interesting job title though - people are always waiting for the second bit! I have to show people my profile on the company website to explain how it stops at that one word.
Despite the very meandering path to get here, I feel I’ve found my biggest sense of success in this role. Success in being more confident, and being comfortable with who I am, and to share my ideas openly. Looking back over the past eight years or so, it really does feel like a journey to have gotten to this point, with one step leading to the next, but at 22 I’d never have thought that almost-30-year-old me would be creating adverts for cinema. It doesn’t matter where you start; what matters is that you keep going after what you want, but in a way that works for you.
I really didn’t value confidence as something to grow, and that would contribute to success, when I was younger. I thought it was about promotions and money and all those traditional markers. But it’s so much more about how you feel inside. I value this so much more now than a salary or linear progression.
I really love that you’ve identified that at this stage - the importance of confidence and an inner knowing, being comfortable with yourself, as being key to your success now.
How do you think that’s developed, or is it just a case of time; of becoming older and wiser?
I think it’s a combination. Some of it comes from managers and mentors - I’ve had a real mix of senior people not contributing to my confidence at all, not offering any encouragement, or not creating the kind of environment to make me feel comfortable to express ideas. And I know I’m not alone in that. But I’ve also worked with really nurturing leaders, especially in my current role.
And it’s also about the people I’ve surrounded myself with, more by choice. Our friendship group from that first job for example, I’d never be where I am now if it wasn’t for you girls, and the confidence you’ve instilled in me through deep conversations and endless encouragement about my abilities, and to go after what I wanted.
Even when it came to getting my current role, you might remember a conversation we had, over mid-week drinks at that bar in Kings Cross, where I explained to you all about being due to have the first interview and they hadn’t sent the meeting link. You encouraged me to find a more direct contact to reach out to rather than HR. And after I’d done that, it was less than 24 hours before the ball really got rolling. I remember that conversation like it was yesterday, you pushing me to go for this, and keep knocking on the door.
In my second role, working more in music, I still felt I was up against it in some ways, due to various different challenges - including those that impact us more as a women. But I did get to explore more creatively, and had some encouragement in that sense, though I still felt my confidence knocked. Having good friends to talk to, especially being former colleagues, was so helpful.
I think the pandemic has changed my journey too. Two of the four years I spent at that second role was the pandemic. When I wanted to transition out, and was exploring opportunities at DCM, they were looking to attract new people with more diverse experiences. Fresh thinking post-pandemic. In some ways I sort of stumbled into this role! Thinking back to the interview process, I always felt there was something about me they were really interested in, but I wasn’t sure what, whether it was my experience or personality or creativity. But I felt wanted. I felt they were interested in me. And when it came to it, it was a case of me actually being given two roles to choose from!
It turned out that behind the scenes there were already people rooting for me, like Bridie, who I now work with really closely as she’s the Producer executing my ideas. We’re good friends too, and she is another fantastic example of how the people you choose to surround yourself with can have such a positive influence on your career, and personal growth, trajectory.
I mean, I guess you had to be mates if she was already singing your praises before you even joined!
And that makes it all the more wonderful that you were recently nominated for the Conquering Creativity Award at the Inspiring Women Awards UK, alongside Bridie - congratulations!
Based on how you approach creativity at work, and perhaps even in life, could you share any tips or methods for getting inspired, or how you dig deep for original ideas, however big or small?
No pressure, but increasingly through this chat I’m realising you are actually Don Draper - or should I say Peggy Olson!
HA - I’m not really sure how creative I am. Did our recent pottery painting class help or hinder the point?!
When it’s your actual job title, there is insane pressure. When you’re sitting around a table and someone says, “we need a new idea,” the eyes go to you. There’s a pressure from the off, rather than just coming up with an idea from nowhere.
In a practical sense though, we recently had a workshop session with Richard Holman, who wrote Creative Demons and How to Slay Them. It’s all about how to tackle the little gremlins in your head that come out when you feel you’ve hit a wall, or are telling you you’re not creative; the book talks about how people have overcome these gremlins in music, science, art etc.
Gaby went on to talk me through the process learnt from Holman, demonstrating in real time below. I won’t go into all the detail here, but top line is think big, and whittle down, but never try to jump to the end point with the first idea.
His approach is really helpful for when working in a team and trying to collaborate together. But the only reason this really works in our team setting, or works so well, I think is because of the environment that’s been set up for us to be comfortable with failing. No idea is too silly, no one is going to knock us down, so there is a freedom to be really creative and innovative.
And Holman says that creativity is actually one of the most human features, pushing back against people who might suggest they are simply not creative or that creativity isn’t for them. It shows up in different ways for different people. The way you write, and share thoughts and ideas and stories through
, that’s creative, and in a way that I don’t think I could be. I wouldn’t know where to start - I’m looking at your notes now and have no idea how you’re going to get something from them!But it comes back to the confidence to fail. Not worrying unnecessarily. Trusting the process that comes from trying, failing, and then growing. The team I have in my role now, and again the people, friends, I surround myself with, who build up this confidence. It all links together.
I really wanted my answer to this question to be something more arty, like what keeps me creative is going on nature walks and taking inspiration from things when out and about. But honestly, it’s not. It’s the mindset of tackling imposter syndrome, trusting that I should be where I am, that I know what I’m doing; my team trusts that, and I need to trust it too. I need to have the confidence to fail.
I think it’s so refreshing actually that you didn’t answer in that way, and offered a different perspective. Doing practices like The Artist’s Way obviously works for some, but not all, and that’s fine. Having that inner confidence is potentially something more people can resonate with as well.
Which I think links in some ways to mental health, something I also wanted to touch on. Alongside being a creative superstar, you're also a big advocate for mental health, looking after our own, and talking about it openly - which I'm grateful that we do a lot of in our friendship group.
When work, creative or not, feels like it's getting too much, and other life things are piling on top, is there any advice or guidance you'd like to share for how we can be a better advocate for protecting and supporting our mental health?
Well first of all, I do want to shout out to you, Sarah and Senay - our friendship group from that first marketing role I had and have been referring to all through this conversation. As well as Bridie who I mentioned earlier - she’s a rock I lean on in my current role.
Second of all, I want to say that I do not have my shit together - I try my best, I try to look after myself, but I do have poor mental health, and I’m aware of it. I just try to keep in mind the things I need to do to make myself feel better.
Linking the two, having friends, or colleagues, who you can talk to about mental health, and who can understand as much as possible through empathy and curiosity, that’s really key. What we do in our group chat - agreeing that an emoji can be worth a thousand words. If I, or another of us, is going through a tough time and doesn’t want to talk or engage, just a simple heart lets each other know we’re still there, we’re okay, but give us some time. We’ll reach out again or engage when we’re ready. We appreciate the messages of concern, we just can’t reply right now. Having that space with no judgement means the world, and has really helped me cope with darker periods.
So who you surround yourself with, who will help support your boundaries, is as important when it comes to mental health as it is with supporting your creativity and career progression. You want people you can talk to at your best, and explain to them how you are at your worst, and let them know how to help.
That said, a lot of this comes with age. I couldn’t speak as openly when we first met at 22 as I do now at 29. And that’s not just between friends, but at work too. We recently had a mental health first aid training at work, and I was able to engage with that in a way I couldn’t have probably five or six years ago. The topic of suicide in particular is really difficult for me, having lost my dad this way just over ten years ago. For a long time I was so traumatised, and of course in many ways still am, but would immediately be triggered by talk of the matter and scared to engage. After years and years of therapy, I feel differently about it now, and more able to engage, talk openly. But it’s not been easy, and I don’t think ever will be.
Of course, accessing therapy is a privilege, and though it should be available to all, I totally understand that not everyone can access it, even when they most need it. But I have made sacrifices myself to afford therapy, buying less things or not going on holidays I might ideally want to, so that I can keep up with my weekly sessions. But it pays off - because when I do spend money on something like a holiday, I can enjoy it all the more because I feel mentally well. And also enjoy work. And seeing friends. Going for brunch. It’s so worth it.
And there are other ways to get help, with free resources out there such as from Mind, and local community groups offering support in different ways. I wouldn’t want people to feel that therapy is the only way to move through difficult experiences. Even taking time off work for an actual mental health day, not saving annual leave to just fill it with activities, but to take a break and have time to relax, or to cry, or to do whatever you need to do.
Also journalling. I know not everyone thinks it’s for them. But just getting your thoughts out with pen to paper is so so helpful. It’s something that Richard Holman talks about as well, jotting things down in whatever way works for you. First thing in the morning ideally, but whenever, however you can.
And push through it. I used to try meditation and yoga and just felt I was faking it. Like I was pretending to do them. Trying to be a good millennial. But about six months ago I had a turning point, when my friend Jo was doing yoga teacher training and needed people to teach for, and I was keen to try and get into it but had no idea how. I agreed to go to one of her classes, at The Shala Studio, and with a bit of perseverance, now I feel like I get it. It’s really working. But I think having this connection through Jo really helped; we supported each other in our needs - me to strengthen my mental health, as well as my body, and for her to gain more experience in doing something she loves.
When you find something that works, block it off in your calendar. Protect that time from work, whether it’s a morning therapy appointment, a lunchtime yoga class, or just time for a walk at some point during the day. For me, protecting my therapy sessions means that, while it’s not easy to start a Wednesday with a difficult conversation, I come out with a different mindset, and I approach work, and the rest of the day, differently, more openly. Especially now the days are a bit longer, even if you fall into the trap of working through lunch, make the most of doing something for you before it gets dark.
Gaby, thank you so so much for your honesty here. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it, and how much it means, that you feel comfortable to share so openly not just in a chat between us, but for readers here too. I’m sure your words and experiences around mental health will be received with more gratitude than you might expect.
And, to end with something a little lighter, as you know, the Cultural Compass series is a key feature of The Navigation, so do you have anything you've read/watched/listened to lately that you'd like to recommend for readers?
I’ll offer a complimentary one of Mad Men, given that, as mentioned earlier, this conversation has made me realise you are actually Penny Olson!
Haha - I love that!
📺 Okay so to start off, Fargo Season 5, which you can watch as a standalone, even if you haven’t seen the other seasons. The reason I recommend it is largely because of three incredible women it features who are three of the most powerful characters I have ever seen on TV. I will caveat though that it does contain domestic abuse, so may not be for everyone. But these three characters captured me so much I just want them to have their own spin off! Fargo can be a bit far-fetched but this season didn’t feel like that. I was glued to it the whole time.
🎶 I also went to a gig recently of a band called Widowspeak, which is actually really nice, quite Zen music, so I’d recommend giving them a listen.
🎬 Then - obviously I’ve got to shout out cinema - Dune: Part Two was insane! Absolutely mesmerising, especially if you love exploring a new world.
🎬 Also The Holdovers - Da’Vine Joy Randolph is incredible. I found the film to have a bit of a Good Will Hunting vibe, relatively light hearted. But every time she came on the screen, she lifted the scene. Lifted the film. Every comment she made landed in such a way, it just added something so special. I was really invested in the story, because of her. I don’t think it’s in the cinema any more but surely coming to a TV screen near you very soon.
Amazing, thanks! I saw Randolph on an episode of The Graham Norton Show recently and loved her presence even in that format. Will give The Holdovers a watch.
Thank you again for your generosity through this conversation - and wishing you a joyful time in these last few weeks of your (our!) 20’s!
🎶 BONUS: Adding another feather to her creative cap, Gaby very kindly curated a playlist to accompany this interview, sharing a collection of songs that reflect our conversation. A first for !
Click here to enjoy the musical vibes.
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